Curriculum Vitae

Prepared March 2015

DAVID HEALY, MD FRCPsych

North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine
Hergest Unit, Ysbyty Gwynedd,
BANGOR,
Gwynedd  LL57 2PW,
Wales (UK)
Tel: (1248) 384452
Fax: (1248) 371397
E-Mail: David.Healy54@googlemail.com  

Citzenship:  Republic of Ireland

Country of Residence:  UK

APPOINTMENTS

  • January 2014 — Professor of Psychiatry, Bangor University
  • November 2004 — Professor of Psychiatry, Cardiff University
  • March 2004 — Adjunct Professor in Centre for Social and Community Research Murdoch University, Perth, March 2004 – February 2007
  • April 2001/05 — Visiting Professor, University of Toronto Faculty of Medicine
  • June 2000 — Appointed Professor of Psychiatry, University of Toronto Head of the Mood & Anxiety Disorders Program
  • Feb 1996 — Reader in Psychological Medicine Division of Psychological Medicine, University of Wales College of Medicine (UWCM)
  • Feb 1992 — Director, North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine (UWCM)
  • Jan 1990 — Senior Lecturer in N Wales Dept of Psychological Medicine Division of Psychological Medicine University of Wales College of Medicine (UWCM), & Honorary Consultant in Psychiatry, Gwynedd

EDUCATION

  • Medical Education:  University College Dublin, 1973‑1979, MB BCh BAO 1st Medical Class Prize & Scholarship MD (PhD in US) awarded in December 1986
  • Psychiatric Training:  Member Royal College of Psychiatrists – Spring 1985 Fellow Royal College of Psychiatrists – Spring 1996

PRE‑MEMBERSHIP EXPERIENCE

  • July 1979 – June 1980 — Internship Mater Hospital Dublin
  • July 1980 – June 1984 — Research Fellow Dept of Pharmacology, University College Galway – MD thesis & Senior House Officer, Dept of Psychiatry, Galway
  • July 1984 — Registrar in St Patrick’s Hospital, Dublin
  • July 1985 — MD write up

POST‑MEMBERSHIP EXPERIENCE

  • Jan 1986 — Registrar St Mary’s Hospital, Castlebar
  • April 1986 — Clinical Research Associate, Dept of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge Clinical School & Honorary Senior Registrar
  • April 1988 — Senior Registrar in Psychogeriatrics with Drs C P B Brook and E Tym
  • May 1989 — Locum Consultant Psychogeriatrician, Fulbourn Hospital, Cambridge
  • Sept 1989  — Senior Registrar in Adult Psychiatry in Norwich
  • Jan 1990 — Locum Cons Norwich, responsible for Substance Abuse

ROYAL COLLEGE of PSYCHIATRISTS ACTIVITIES

  • Senior Organiser MRCPsych exam 1991-1993
  • Scheme Organiser for Senior/Specialist Registrars 1992-1997.
  • MRCPsych Part I examiner
  • College representative on Appointment Committees
  • Assessor of Membership Research Projects

RESEARCH TRAINING

  • MD thesis commenced August 1980, Supervised by Brian Leonard, Prof. of Pharmacology, U College, Galway & Directed by Professor T B Counihan, Dept of Medicine, U College, Dublin
  • Thesis “Biochemical Correlates of Depression” submitted Dec 1985
  • A study of platelet 5HT uptake and 5HT induced aggregation responses, platelet alpha adrenoceptor binding and lymphocyte beta adrenoceptor binding in depression
  • Clinical Research Associate ‑ Dept of Psychiatry, Cambridge, April 86 ‑ March 88. Funded by a Wellcome Trust Major Grant Award: Biological Markers in Depression. My Cambridge research also included work on concentration & memory in depression

FOUNDATIONS

  • Founder and Board Member Centre for Data Based Medicine:  2010 to present
  • Board Member Foundation for Excellence in Mental Health:  2010 to present
  • Founder and Board member Data Based Medicine Global Limited:  2010 to present

Data Based Medicine aims at facilitating patient adverse event reporting and provision of state of the art consumer information using website technology RxISK.org.  This is a multinational collaboration with multidisciplinary input across primary care, general medicine, psychiatry, pharmacology, pharmaco-epidemiology, genetics and anthropology as well as across the primary-secondary care interface and is linked to the WHO Uppsala Monitoring Centre for pharmacovigilance.  The platform will provide opportunities for epidemiological investigations, genetic studies, drug discovery, and a range of opportunities to explore sociological/ anthropological issues in qualitative studies and the aim is to have the Centre for Data Based Medicine as a self funding institute with links to a major academic institution.

RESEARCH GRANTS

  • Research Fellowship Dept of Pharmacology, U Coll Galway, 1980-82
  • MRC Ireland Research Grant to investigate circadian variations in biological markers in depression, 1982-1984
  • Research Fellow 1986 to 1988; Wellcome Trust Major Grant Award held by Prof E S Paykel in Cambridge
  • Grant holder from the Welsh Scheme for Health & Social Serv­ices Research for a Cognitive Therapy of Delu­sions, Jan 1992 to Jan 1994, £43,000
  • Grant holder Clwyd H.A.: Cognitive Therapy of Delusions; £50,000
  • Grant holder Wellcome Trust for equipment for investigating the cognitive neuropsychology of neuroleptic drugs. £5,000
  • Grant holder SmithKline Beecham for work on the cognitive neuropsychology of drugs active on the 5HT system. £50,000
  • Clinical trial of a 5HT‑1A agonist in depres­sion, Duphar, £25,000
  • Co‑Holder of a MRC/Welsh Office/NW Reg H Authority Grant with R Bentall, R Stevenson and J Day (U of Liverpool), A Rogers (U of Manchester) G9322371, A multidisciplinary study of the management of neuroleptic medication in schizophrenia: educational and collaborative approaches. 1994-1998, £300,000
  • Collaborator with M Jones and P Michael (UWB) on a Wellcome Trust Grant to research the history of the North Wales Hospital 1992-1995
  • Co-holder Wellcome Trust Grant with Dr M Fraser and Professor N Rose, Dept of Sociology, Goldsmith’s College London, Ethical Aspects of Psychiatric Drug Development, £88,000. Grant no. 065209/Z/01/Z/CM/CD/SW, 2001-2004
  • Co-holder with Professor E Shorter, Dept of History, U of Toronto, of a Canadian Institutes of Health Research grant 116654: “The renewal of the pharmacopoeia for mood and anxiety 1966-2003”, $312,000: 1.10.03 to 30.09.06.
  • Coholder with Mark Rapley: Medicating the Unruly Child: A genealogy of ADHD, = $AUS18, 500, MU Research Excellence Grants Scheme, no #
  • Coholder with F Bayliss, J Downey et al States of Mind: Emerging issues in Neuroethics, Canadian Institutes of Heath Research. Spring 2006, NNF 80045, Can $1,376,500
  • Holder grant on Toxoplamosis infection in psychosis from Stanley Medical Research Foundation, granted Summer 2007, $300,000
  • Co-Holder with Dr S Linden, War trauma and mental illness: Psychopathology and the natural histories of patients admitted to the North Wales Asylum during WWI. Reference: SG090329
  • Data Based Medicine Development Funds: $500,000 

MEMBERSHIP OF SOCIETIES

  • Royal College of Psychiatrists – 1985. Fellow – 1996.
  • British Association of Psychopharmacology ‑ Council Member & Hon Asst Secretary, 1989‑1992
  • Secretary 1992‑1995 Member of the Association of European Psychiatrists.
  • Member of European College of Neuropsychopharmacology
  • Fellow of Collegium Internationale Neuropsychopharmacologium
  • Member of the History Group Royal College of Psychiatrists
  • Member of the European Association for the History of Psychiatry
  • Member of the History Section of the World Psychiatric Association Secretary 2009 ongoing.
  • Member of the European Society for Chronobiology
  • Member Advisory Board of European College of Study Methods in Clinical Trials
  • Member of ECNP working party for the History of Neuropsychopharmacology
  • Associate of BIOS: Centre for the study of Bioscience, Biomedicine, Biotechnology and Society at the London School of Economics and Political Science

DISTINCTIONS

  • First Mental Health Foundation Essay Prize for 1988
  • Awarded a CINP Rafaelson Scholar Award in 1988
  • Keynote Speaker at 30th Annual RANZCP Meeting – May 1995.
  • Visiting Lecturer at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry & Guest Lecturer on the History of Medicine Program, Univ. of Toronto, October 1995.
  • Chair Wellcome Trust Witness Seminar March 1997.
  • Guest Lecturer.  7th Japanese Clin Neuropharmacology Assoc. Tokyo, Nov 1997.
  • Invited Lecture – American Psychopathological Association March 1999.
  • Annual Raths-Steiger Lecture, Collegium Helveticum, ETH Zurich June 1999.
  • Distinguished Guest Lecture, Dept of Psychiatry, Oslo, March 2000.
  • Eric T Carlsson Memorial Grand Rounds, Cornell University, N York, Dec 2000
  • Annual MIND-Institute of Psychiatry Lecture, February 2002.
  • Bartlett Visiting Professorship, U of Rochester, N York, Nov 2003.
  • Studium Generale Lecture Groningen April 2005
  • Chancellor’s Distinguished Guest Lecture, Louisiana State University Oct 2005
  • ACNP Oakley Ray Annual Lecture on History of Psychopharmacology 2008
  • Studium Generale Lecture Gent, February 2012

EDITORIAL BOARD

  • Human Psychopharmacology – 1990 – 2000
  • Primary Care & Community Psychiatry – 1995 – 2005
  • History of Psychiatry – 2002 – Associate Editor 2012
  • Medical Hypotheses – 2003 – 2010
  • Mens Sana Monographs – 2007 –
  • Psychosis – 2007 –

GRANT REVIEWER

  • ESRC
  • Canadian Institutes of Health Research
  • MacArthur Fellowship Reviewer
  • Medical Research Council of Canada
  • Medical & Social Science Research Board
  • Mental Health Foundation
  • National Institute for Health Research
  • National Lotteries Charities Board
  • National Science Foundation
  • Scottish Health Board
  • Social Sciences & Humanities Research Council of Canada
  • Wellcome Trust
  • Welsh NHS Research and Development Board

ACADEMIC PROMOTION REVIEW

  • Renselaar Polytechnic Institute
  • Trent University
  • University of California, Los Angeles

GOVERNMENT CONSULTANT

  • Medical and HealthCare Devices Regulatory Agency (UK) 2001-2004 on SSRIs
  • Senator Grassley’s Office US re SSRIs
  • Congressmen Barton and Greenwood US re SSRIs
  • House of Commons Health Select Ctte on the Influence of the Pharmaceutical Industry.
  • Comité d’évaluation des pratiques médicales en matière de médicaments (Belgium)

WORKSHOP/TRAINING PROGRAMMES

  • When psychopharmacology goes wrong.  Leading Edge Seminars, Toronto May 2002.
  • What a therapist needs to know about psychopharmacology.  Centre for Training in Psychotherapy, April 23rd 2005, Toronto
  • When psychopharmacotherapy goes wrong.  Leading Edge Seminars, Toronto, April 26th 2005
  • One of its outcomes was both the same.  Statistical Methods in Psychopharmacology, Welsh Psychiatric Society, November 2005
  • Antidepressants & Homicide, RANZAPPL, Hunter Valley, April 10-11th 2006
  • How to recognised and deal with the hazards of psychotropic medication. Open Doors, U West of England, Bristol, February 27 2009.
  • The Marketing of Psychotropic Drugs, University of Minneapolis, May 2009

In addition to the above, I have lectured in Departmental & Regional forums in

  • Bradford,
  • Bristol (x3),
  • Cardiff (x8),
  • Cambridge (x4),
  • Dumfries
  • Edinburgh (x2),
  • Wrexham (x2)
  • Glasgow
  • Leicester,
  • Leeds,
  • Maastricht,
  • Newcastle (x3),
  • Northampton
  • Norwich
  • Oxford,
  • Sheffield
  • St Bartholomew’s,
  • The Clarke Institute Toronto (x4),
  • The Institute of Psychiatry (x3), a number of Irish departmental settings, on general practice training schemes in North Wales, Royal College of Psychiatrists membership schemes in a number of locations, & on several occasions to the Welsh Psychiatric Society.

I have also lectured in a variety of pharmaceutical company sponsored meetings throughout the UK (Newcastle, Glasgow, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Cambridge (x3), Merseyside (x3), London (x3)), as well as in Denmark, Greece (x2), Finland, Italy, Portugal, Spain (x2), Sweden, South Africa & at Satellite Symposia at major meetings such as ECNP & BAP.

Lectures for the most part in these latter forums have been on the history of the antidepressants or antipsychotics or on aspects of the methodologies for evaluating psychotropic efficacy.

I have lectured on a number of occasions for patient groups and for other professionals allied to mental health.  Lectures to patient groups have included 3 annual guest lectures for MIND in North Wales.

I have also presented in forums such as the Café Scientifique in Leeds, Sept 1999, and again in November 2002, the British Association for the Advancement of Science, Imperial College, Sept 2000, and on a variety of media programmes dealing with aspects of mental health.

I have lectured at launch meetings for Organon in Athens, Pharmacia in Cambridge, Stockholm, Gothenburg, Malmo, Helsinki, Barcelona, Astra-Zeneca (Germany) in Cambridge, Pierre Fabre in Seoul and London, Astra Zeneca in Athens, Montreux and Seville, and Toronto for Janssen Pharmaceuticals.

I have been consulted on a range of programmes dealing with psychotropic drugs including File on Four, Panorama, Channel 4’s The Secret History of Drugs, & Discovery TVs The Psychopharmacological Era, as well as CBC television and radio in Canada, including the Fifth Estate.  I have also participated in a nationally broadcast debate on Australia’s All in the Mind radio programme on issues surrounding the contemporary use of antidepressants, and participated in ABC in the US 20-20 and CBS programmes on hazards linked to the use of antidepressants

SYMPOSIA & MEETINGS ORGANISED

I have organised Symposia for BAP Annual Meetings:

  • In 1991 on Dementia: Biological Bases
  • & Altered Consciousness: Phenomenology and Pharmacology
  • In 1992 on: The Circadian System and Affective Disorders
  • In 1993 on: Beyond the Receptor:The Significance of Gene Expression for Psychopharmacology
  • In 1995 on: Social Phobia.
  • In 1996 on: The Psychopharmacology of Aggression
  • In 1997 on: Compliance and Psychopharmacology
  • In 2000 on: Suicide and Psychotropic Treatment.
  • In 2005 on: Dependence & Psychotropic Agents
  • The North Wales Regional Meeting of the BAP Spring 1992:
    • Psychopharmacology: Big Business or Successful Science.
    • Psychopharmacology in Primary Care
  • The BAP Winter Meeting 1993
    • Psychotropic Drug Development: Social, Economic & Clinical Issues
  • A BAP Round-Table on Paediatric Psychopharmacology – London Jan 1997.
    • This was attended by an international experts, regulators, the Royal Coll Psychiatrists and the pharmaceutical industry.  I organised the meeting and wrote the resulting consensus statement.
  • For the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCP)
    • I have organised a 1-day meeting & publication of proceedings in Sept 1989, on : History of Biological Psychiatry
    • & Symposia for the RCP, Winter Meeting in Glasgow 1995 on:  The Relations between Psychiatry and the Pharmaceutical Industry
    • & for the Joint RCP & Assoc European Psychiatrists meeting in London 1996 on The History of Physical Treatments in Psychiatry
    • & a symposium for the 1998 CINP meeting in Glasgow on:  Neuropsychopharmacology: The Historical Record.
    • & for the Joint Royal College & World Psychiatric Assoc meeting in London 2001 on: The History of Drug Dependence
  • For the Int Assoc of Law & Mental Health:
    • When medical and legal worlds collide: SSRIs homicide and suicide Paris 2005
    • Homicide and Psychotropic Drugs: Padua 2007.
  • For the World Psychiatric Association Annual Meeting in Buenos Aires Sept 2011 on :
    • The Historiography of Mental Illness

FORMAL TEACHING

  • In Galway, I taught on pharmacological and psychiatric topics in lecture, seminar and tutorial formats.
  • In Cambridge I gave lectures, tutorials and clinics to medical students and to candidates on Part I & II MRCPsych courses ‑ covering schizophrenia, the affective disorders, psychopharmacology, substance abuse and the management and assessment of dementia.  I was Asst. Tutor to Dr G Berrios for the MRCPsych and was involved in organising and assessing psychiatric and medical student training.
  • In N Wales, I train medical students from Cardiff and Liverpool, post‑graduate psychiatric and GP trainees and contribute to paramedical training.
  • I have an Honorary app­ointment with the Dept. of Psychology in Bangor, where from 1990 to 1997 I lectured on abnormal psychology and the history of psychiatry.
  • I contribute to the College of Medicine’s Diploma in Therapeutics, organised by Prof. Philip Routledge.
  • From 1990 to 2001, I organised a weekly multidisciplinary post-graduate training slot in Bangor with input from national and international guest lecturers.
  • From 1995 to the present I have organised an annual Guest Lecture slot with contributions from Edward Shorter, Richard Dawkins, Anthony Clare, Roy Porter, Simon Wessely, David Weatherall, David Goldberg & others.
  • I have lectured on the MRCPsych course for the U of Liverpool from 1997 to the present.
  • I organise and teach the psychopharmacology module for the U of Birmingham’s Diploma in Community Mental Health

From 1992 through to the end of 1997, I was the S.R/Sp.R Programme Director in North Wales.  During this time, the rotation expanded from three A.M.I and one learning disability post to seven A.M I and old age posts, one clinical lecturer post, two learning disability posts and there was always at least one research senior registrar.

I have been the N Wales representative on the All-Wales Speciality Training Committee through the process of Calmanisation.

I was also the Audit Convenor in Gwynedd and the medical representative on the Clinical Effectiveness Committee from 1994 to 2001.

DEPARTMENTAL & UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENT IN NORTH WALES

While Director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine, the complement of Academic Staff increased from 2 Senior Lecturer posts to 4 Senior Lecturer posts, and later to 1 Chair and 3 other senior academic posts.

I have been personally responsible for the recruitment of all other academics in College of Medicine posts in psychiatry in North Wales.

DOCTORAL THESES SUPERVISED

North West Wales has had no medical student and no formal post-graduate medical training during the period of time that I have been there.  There have, furthermore, been no formal arrangements for collaborative research between the College of Medicine and the University of Wales Bangor.

Trainees on the psychiatric training scheme do not choose North Wales for research purposes.  There have nevertheless been a relatively high number of trainees who have their names on articles and small though the numbers are there has been a greater proportion of trainees who have gone on to undertake higher research degrees than can be readily found elsewhere.

  • Dr C F Fear, MD.  Cognitive Processes in Obsessive-Compulsive and Delusional Disorders. Awarded August 1995.
  • Dr B Williams, PhD.  The Role of the Person in People Centred Mental Health Care. Awarded. November 1995.
  • Dr M-A Pasteur, PhD.  The Role of Monoamine systems in Memory Functioning. Awarded. November 1995.
  • Dr R Tranter, PhD, The Role of Personality in Depressive Disorders and their Response   to Antidepressants. Awarded December 2008
  • Tarang Sharma, University of Copenhagen, Adverse Effects of Antidepressants and their Effects on the Quality of Life of Patients
  • Shubha Srinivasan, Bangor University, Emotional Processing in Mood Disorders

I currently have 2 whole-time research scientists working with me and I am supervising Paul Green & Margaret Harris in PhD programmes.

I have been an external PhD thesis examiner for:

  • University of London – psychiatry
  • University of London – psychology
  • University of New South Wales – history and philosophy of science
  • Lampeter University   – philosophy of science
  • Brighton University – medical sociology
  • Copenhagen University – medical sociology

As well as external examiner for final MB exams at St Bartholomew’s Hospital 1996-98. & external examiner on the Aston University’s Distance Learning Psychiatric Pharmacy Diploma & Certificate from 2002 – 2005.

PSYCHOTHERAPY

I have been the principal grant holder on a project investigating the efficacy of cognitive therapy for delusional disorders.  Work in this area and contributions in two books led to an invitation to be keynote speaker on The Psychotherapy of the Psychoses at the thirtieth annual meeting of RANZCP in May of 1995.

Research is also in progress with R Bentall, J Day, A Rogers and others on behavioural determinants of compliance with neuroleptic medication with a view to constructing a management package aimed at enhancing compliance with treatment.

LEGAL WORK

  • I have been the medical expert for the NHS in a series of cases involving LSD therapy given in the 1950s and 1960s taken out against the NHS.  These cases settled with a reputed saving to the NHS of several million pounds.
  • I have also advised the NHS litigation lawyers on pending ECT suits taken out against the NHS, and have given opinions on cases.
  • I have been instructed by the General Medical Council to offer a legal opinion on a case involving a matter of psychiatric interest.
  • I have also given medical opinions in a series of cases linked SSRI intake to suicide, violence, dependence and birth defects.  These have in general discounted the role of medication in the claimed effects but in a small series of cases I have offered opinions for the claimants/defendants.  These cases have led to a first ever verdict against a pharmaceutical company for psychiatric side effects of psychotropic medication.  The case series has led to a Book – Let Them Eat Prozac, which aims at contributing original material to the more general debate on issues at the medico-legal interface.
  • I have been an expert witness in 3 major tort cases that have gone to Court, the Forsyth case, subsequently settled by Lilly, the Tobin case, a first ever verdict against a pharmaceutical company for a psychiatric adverse event on a psychotropic drug, and the Kilker case which led to over $1billion in payouts by GlaxoSmithKline for birth defects linked to Paxil.
  • I have been an expert witness in several cases of treatment related violence that have goneto Court including Tobin, Hawkins, Bentley and Pittman, involving Paxil, Efexor, Zoloft and others involving Prozac.
  • I have been an expert witness in approximately 30 other cases involving treatment induced suicide, dependence on treatment and treatment induced birth defects, linked to Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa and Lexapro, all of which except the Miller case have been resolved in favour of plaintiffs.
  • I have been a leading expert in a Canadian patent case which overthrew Lilly’s patent on olanzapine (Zyprexa), one securities case involving Forest (In re Forest Laboratories Inc Securities Litigation Civil Action No. 05-CV-2827-RMB) and played a part in New York State’s Fraud action against GlaxoSmithKline.
  • I have, on a largely pro bono basis, provided reports on over 20 inquests of people who have died from suicide while taking all major antidepressants.
  • I have been approached in a large number of other cases involving psychotropic drugs and subsequent violence or criminal behavior. In a majority of the cases that I have been approached about overall, I have indicated that the drug in question is unlikely to have been a factor.
  • I have been recently involved a series of cases centering on congenital malformations and their linkage to prenatal antidepressant intake.

INDUSTRIAL CONSULTANCIES

  • Astra-Zeneca
  • Boots Pharmaceuticals
  • Eli Lilly
  • Janssen Pharmaceuticals
  • Lundbeck
  • Organon
  • Pharmacia-Upjohn
  • Rhone-Poulenc Rorer
  • SmithKline Beecham 

CLINICAL SERVICE DEVELOPMENT

On arriving in North Wales, I established multidisciplinary working in a sectorized service. The clinical service I offer ab initio has had a number of interesting features, with patients having copies of all correspondence on them.  This has been subject to a number of studies and has given rise to articles listed in the reference section.  It has been highly praised by a number of service auditors and others.

Since 1997, I have been the lead consultant for ECT in North-West Wales and have established I believe the first full consultant led ECT service in the UK.  All patients are seen by the ECT team prior to treatment, during treatment and subsequently following discharge, with consultant input on all ECT sessions, and former patients involved in aiding the consent process for new referrals.

Since 2002, I have had sessions devoted to the development of a liaison service with the general medical services in Bangor.

As a consequence for the past 8 years, I have been working from 5 to 8 fixed sessions.

Through 1990‑94, I was Chairman of the Gwynedd group of psychiat­ric consultants.  During this time, the psychiatric services moved from acute to community unit management and the North Wales psychiatric services adopted Trust status. By virtue of my position, I was centrally involved in developments.

At Directorate level:

  • From 2002 I have been the Chair of the Local Consultant group.
  • I chair the Mental Health Clinical Governance Group.
  • From 2002 to 2007 I was deputy clinical director

On behalf of the North West Wales Trust:

  • I sit on the Research Committee,
  • on the Clinical School Development Committee, and
  • I chair the Research Governance Review Committee;

This latter committee scrutinizes research for compliance with regulations such as the ionizing radiation regulations, human tissue act, capacity and consent, and for cost implications to the clinical service.

My clinical and academic input has been regularly cited as one reason why North West Wales has had all substantive and training posts filled in recent years, and why morale is particularly good in this service.