This is the first of a two part piece. Little Red Stethoscope follows. More on the current post can be found in Images of Trauma.
A grimm tale
The development of psychoanalysis depended heavily on Freud’s approach to the interpretation of dreams and myths. Key to these interpretations were his claims about the symbolic nature of certain elements of dreams, myths or conversations. Interpreting the symbol revealed what the dreamer, myth-maker or patient really meant.
Following Freud a number of prominent psychoanalysts analyzed various fairy tales and claimed to offer their timeless and true meaning. Chief among these analysts were Bruno Bettleheim and Erich Fromm.
At the centerpiece of most of these interpretive efforts was Little Red Riding Hood.
In recent years Angela Carter’s short story made into a marvelous movie by Neil Jordan, The Company of Wolves, hinged on this true meaning revealed by the analysts.
Briefly, the Red Riding Hood indicates a young girl on the verge of puberty. The Bottle she carries in her basket symbolizes her virginity. Her mother’s Warning not to stray from the path is an injunction against sexual intercourse. Visiting her grandmother is an Oedipal abolition of her mother. The Wolf represents her Id and her Father. The saving huntsman is her rational ego.
A grimmer tale
The analytic claim that interpreting this fairy story in these terms reveals the correct and timeless significance of the story offers a wonderful and beautiful tale in its own right. But it’s a fiction. These interpretations cannot be correct. They are based on a fundamental inaccuracy, which is that the text used for these interpretations comes from Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm, which is a corruption of the version that came down through the oral traditions of French peasants.
The original version is as follows:
Once a little girl was told by her mother to bring some bread and milk to her grandmother. As the girl was walking through the forest, a wolf came up to her and asked where she was going.
“To grandmother’s house“, she replied.
“Which path are you taking, the path of the pins or the path of the needles?”
“The path of the needles“.
So the wolf took the path of the pins and arrived first at the house. He killed grandmother, poured her blood into a bottle and sliced her flesh onto a platter. Then he got into her night clothes and waited in bed.
“Knock, knock.”
“Come in, my dear”.
“Hello, grandmother. I’ve brought you some bread and milk.”
“Have something yourself, my dear. There is meat and wine in the pantry”.
So the little girl ate what was offered. As she did, a little cat said:
“Slut to eat the flesh and drink the blood or your grandmother !”
Then the wolf said,
“Undress and get into bed with me”.
“Where shall I put my apron ?”
“Throw it on the fire; you won’t need it any more“.
For each garment ‑ bodice, skirt, petticoat and stockings ‑ the girl asked the same question; and each time the wolf answered,
“Throw it on the fire; you won’t need it anymore.”
When the girl got into bed, she said,
“Oh, grandmother ! How hairy you are!”
“Its to keep me warmer, my dear.”
“Oh, grandmother ! What big shoulders you have !”
“Its for better carrying firewood, my dear“.
“Oh grandmother ! What long nails you have ?“
“Its for scratching myself better, my dear !“
“Oh grandmother ! What big teeth you have !“
“Its for eating you better, my dear.“
And he ate her.
There are no red hoods, bottles, admonitions to stay on the narrow path or saving hunters in the original. The interpretation of elements of a story in terms of its symbolic qualities may be justified but if this is to be undertaken it would seem necessary to establish beforehand the correct version of the story to be interpreted – or you can make up what you want.
Another enlightening posting ..thank you so much, Marjorie
Locked Ward.
They looked deeply concerned, as they stood next to each other, almost like identical co-joined twins. They leaned forward together, tipped their heads together, and had the same identical puzzled expressions.
“WHAT on earth is wrong with you?” they said, almost as if one fuzzy vision was speaking, but the words came only from Carol’s mouth.
Amongst my fuzzy grey matter, I was shocked….what? It took only a moment, or two, or maybe three or four? I don’t know?………… for their words to penetrate, but I just had no way of responding. The words were there, but my mouth just would not move, not the way my mind wanted it to, anyway. I tried, but the words were not recognisable as my own.
So we stood together in that lonely cold corridor, all three of us, almost in a timeless void. While I rambled incoherently. Two doors locked behind me, one door locked in front of me, yet behind these strange people.
That door led to the outside sunshine, and an exercise bike. I longed for that exercise bike, and the privilege of getting rid of all my useless energy, so I could relax, exhausted. I wished I was a smoker, then I could request to go outside to that razor wired enclosure, with it’s little gazebo and green grass. And the staff liked that too, as they had to accompany us, and had a chance to smoke too, and anything that make the staff happy, was good……………………. Damn, I wish I was a smoker.
These thoughts travelled through my mind quickly, while my lips just fumbled and jumbled, and dribbled. Wish my tongue wasn’t so swollen, wish my jaw would loosen up. I must be so, so sick. I leant forward, so as not to fall, my balance was a bit gone too, but I was determined not to fall, and walk as dignified as I could. I will not fall, I will not fall, I will not fall, focus, focus, balance, balance, speak, speak, I will not fall. I tried to focus and think, to distract myself, as one does when one tries not to vomit, I longed for that outside enclosure, and the company of seeing other humans, those less fortunate than me on the other side of the wire, the ones that walked around in circles. It reminded me so much of the movie “midnight express”. But I was in Australia. I was told I was in Albany, I know I am not there, but I am definite, I am still in Australia, somewhere? Yes, definitely Australia, somewhere. Someone said Mount Claremont, but I have never heard of that place.
Aimlessly walking, not lucky enough to have an exercise bike, until the cigarettes were all extinguished, and they had to go back in. At least they had longer in the sun, than us, there were more of them and it took longer for them all to finish their smokes. And luckily they had their smokes, and the sun, not like “Midnight Express”. I am so glad I am in Australia.
“What on earth is wrong with you?” Again….I tried my best, but no matter how I tried, I just couldn’t respond, not well enough that they understood. It was as if I were speaking an alien language. So I became quiet, they might become cross with me. I knew I had done something dreadfully wrong, I must have, why else why would I be here? Why would I be kept under lock and key, trying to breastfeed a new baby, while a man looks through a thick glass cell window.
I cry. My baby leaves with my friend. I am grateful, I am so ashamed to cry. Focus, Angelina, focus, I am talking to myself in my head again. Focus Angelina, focus!.
I am promised in two days, if I am good, I will be able to visit the shop. First with an escort only, perhaps, if I am good, later by myself. And out of pure necessity, I have been given cold cabbage leaves to ease the pain of my swollen breasts, my baby only visits once a day. I am grateful.
I must have done something absolutely horrific….I wish I could ask for a blanket and a pillow, but I am scared. I have been punished before with needles. At least I have a bed, a mattress, and an empty tin cupboard, and a small window. I can see the sunshine outside. Focus Angelina, focus, those voices in my befuddled brain again. I focus.
Now these strange visions in front of me, are asking again “WHAT is wrong with you.””
Finally my thoughts clear and my mind is alert, for just a few seconds….my brain is talking to me again, I am so glad my mouth is not speaking…it is talking to me and it says “How the fuck am I supposed to know, what is wrong with me? Isn’t that your job?” I am so grateful, just as I am grateful now for every small mercy, that I can not respond, as I know they would be angry.
Susan and her thick locks of sunny red hair, like waves of flames on her head, Carol, with her glasses and wrinkled, tired face. They are before me again, and say “sign this”, ….then I cannot hear very , well…something…..I think I am crying again, inside, although my body does not show it, they are saying more, but it is irrelevant. My fuzzy grey matter knows I have no choice.
Inside I am angry, I want to see my doctor, but they denied this request. Or did he not want to see me? I am confused again. No, he must want to punish me for my evil, or why would I be here. But what was my evil? Please tell me, what did I do? They don’t know what is wrong with me? I hope he does. They demand to be allowed to ask him.
I know I have no choice, Susan carefully guides my arm with a pen in my hand, while Carol holds a board with a piece of paper on it. I sign as best I can. It is so difficult, my hand is shaking so wildly, my eyes are so fuzzy I find it hard to locate the distance required to put the pen to the paper. I am determined not to dribble.
I need to think of something else, so I do. I look forward to tomorrow, if I am good, I will get to see the sunshine, and stretch my legs….. I look forward to the “Shop”, whatever it may be. I have been good, I signed the paper.
Caroline was head of Graylands, Susan was a lovely psych, but she was managing both locked ward, and mother and baby ward, and, and? I will never know if I was put in locked ward (even though a fully volutary patient), because there were no beds available elsewhere, or if they put me in locked ward, after the run in night before, with a psych, who medicated me for psychosis, because I asked where my baby was (damn the rfds fellows, for lying and telling me yes, my baby was on board, I was, despite the drugs, concerned when I heard, one laugh to the other (I could not open my eyes, was so drugged), but he laughed and said haha! yeah your dog is on board too!.
I believed that my baby was sent with me, I woke up quite well, but confused, after all the damn gp valium was well worn off after 2 days of sedation….. I was a voluntary patient…………………
Susan yes, flowing red hair, in charge of mother and baby ward, and locked ward. I had never, ever been locked up in my life, voluntary patient, drugged because a stupid psych didnt believe I had a newborn baby?
Yes that is Mental Health, Western Australia,, just dont accept a damn valium from a gp!
Ang, my heart bleeds for you. Only last night I was talking to a relative about her daughter’s post natal depression and what a distressing time it had been all round. Then to read your account tonight – it really hit home. What a disgrace! They say that truth is often stranger than fiction – certainly true in this case.
Interesting to read the original version of Little Red Riding Hood. Have had to write a few ‘interpretations’ of my own of this and other stories – in the days when a ‘story’ was not good for children unless an ‘interpretation’ went with it. Mine were very mild in comparison!
all interpretations welcome
Working with 6 – 7 year olds, the interpretation went no further than ‘stranger danger’ and the importance of the word “no” to anything you’re not comfortable with/ sure about!
What do children learn from fairy tales and myths, if not what it is to be feared, and feared the most in this world? They mobilize their defenses from imaginary powers they assume they have, and play diligently at defeating monsters– do they not?
What is to be feared most? Actual death, loss of life or loss of innocence ? And where are the beasts who lie in wait for the unprotected child? Are they hiding in the forrest, or do they dwell as secret longings in their own minds?
Stories change over time,– reflecting knowledge gained, skills acquired and new frontiers to be conquered. The Grimm version of Red Riding Hood appears to be as influenced by psycho analytic theories as psycho analysts are drawn to it. Maybe not a coincidence?
Re :-What is to be feared most? Actual death etc., I don’t think children fear death at all – adults build that fear into them. Ever seen a young child with a dead bird? – it’s straight into post mortem mode. Along comes an adult with “don’t touch that – IT’S DEAD – come away and wash your hands this minute” -child’s curiosity killed as dead as the bird and a kindling of ‘death = horror’ has begun. Why does anyone fear death? Fear of dying (pain etc. I can understand, beyond that I do not follow. Our church minister, when he needs to talk about ‘death’ with the children, always starts by saying “I’m dying – are you?” Then goes on to explain that from the day we are born we are a day closer to dying ( which we cannot argue with!) and that usually leads to quite intense discussions about our lives here and beyond which the teenagers enjoy immensely.
The most beautiful thing ( on the same topic!) that I’ve ever seen – at the funeral of a 6 year old road traffic victim from our village, there was no hearse just one black car, in the back of which was her little pink coffin laid out in front of the knees of her parents and her 3 year old sister. That,to my mind, is how ‘death’ should be treated.
On a brighter note – those of us in the UK and looking for something to do at 8pm on Boxing night are to be treated to an updated version of Peter Pan – called Peter and Wendy – set in Great Ormond Street children’s hospital. I hope it’s as good as it sounds. Maybe we’ll need to do our own interpretations of that next.
A very happy and peaceful Christmas to anyone who reads this.
Mary,
I agree, fears are built into the lives of children by adults–. I think Fairytales– children’s literature as a genre, are something akin to instruction manuals for constructing *healthy fears*; a means for adults to transfer their own fear of the death of their child? Sometimes the message is lost in the translation…
I think the original, “little girl meets big bad wolf” is a venue for introducing danger as a consequence of complacency.
Foolish, careless, overly trusting little girl, becomes a meal for a clever wolf,
after eating her own grandmother! (unaware ?)
Moral of the story: Don’t give out personal info to strangers.
Did that meal taste anything like what Granny used to make?
Look before you leap… even into your granny’s bed.
Things are not always as they appear to be…
The Grimm’s version interjects content that focuses on inner directed responses to the call to adventure or the temptation of what is also forbidden. To say they *corrupted* the original, is pointing out they changed the fundamental meaning and message of a story that was part of a tradition. The Grimm’s added layers of complexity (red hoods, bottles, admonitions to stay on the narrow path or saving hunters ) : Wrestling with one’s own conscience, as opposed to grappling with the elements in nature, and inferring a connection between a dangerous element and one’s own desires. Clearly, these are not relevant issues for children, who have no concept of a *psyche*, much less the elements that influence their moral development.
I think the Jacob and Wilhelm imposed their world view, which was no doubt *corrupted* by their pre-adolescent exposure to sudden, unforeseen alterations in their ideal world of wealth and social status. Who knows how they managed to adjust, or who they blamed for their misfortune? Clues left in their writing suggest they were less than satisfied with the wisdom imparted in traditional folk tales, and that they sought approval for moral transgressions from an audience who was negotiating the pre-industrial revolution with a sense of powerlessness and trepidation.
Loss of innocence and security are more fearsome than death — is the theme of my interpretation of the Grimm’s version of Red Riding Hood. It is a theme that resonated with a large audience during a particularly tumultuous time in history.
So, perhaps it is worth considering that the psychoanalytic value of Grimm’s version reflects the challenges (to the psyche) created by the *times*, and are not necessarily universal or timeless.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head in saying that loss of ‘security’ is to be feared’ Security is fundamental to any human’s wellbeing – especially a child’s. Having brought up 5 foster children (ranging in age from 20 months to 10years of age when placed with us) I would certainly agree that their lack of ‘trust in the system’ or ‘security of placement’ played havoc with their young lives.
To be removed from everything that you have ever known, however undesirable the situation may have seemed to outsiders, and (eventually) placed in a background totally alien to that which you had left behind, is unimaginable to me as an adult; how much worse it must be for a child.
The security that you then build into their lives is based on YOUR faith in the system – that ‘long -term placements’ mean just that and not ‘ until we have another idea about the situation’!
The problems caused by such an upheaval rarely left them although, obviously, the way that each child acted out the insecurity was different due to the variety in their ages.
I fully appreciate that the powers that be have to pay particular attention to a child’s wellbeing but I do feel that the emotional effect of removal tends to be forgotten in the flurry of ‘actions to be taken’ which dwell on the situation as found, forgetting that ‘security,’ to anyone of us, is an absolute necessity for our mental wellbeing – our comfort zone.
Large Red #Riding Hood..
“GlaxoSmithKline was misstating the downside risks. We then asked the question, how can they get away with this?” Eliot Spitzer, who filed the 2004 suit when he was New York attorney general, said in an interview.
http://www.statnews.com/2015/12/13/clinical-trials-investigation/
“As a young doctor, Goldacre broke his leg in a fall while running to treat a cardiac arrest patient. “Nobody has ever broken a leg running down a corridor to try to fix the
problem of publication bias,” he said. “That’s because of a failure of empathy.”
(I turned up this, and, appreciate this might not be appropriate to broadcast due to impending litigation and the sensitivity of such)
(http://the-uk-seroxat-litigation-chronicles.blogspot.co.uk/)
Breaking a leg is more likely than not when running from Seroxat and hard nosed disbelievers….down the corridors of power and influence?
Most of this is wonderkund, but, they gave GlaxoSmithKline an offer they couldn’t refuse and this really is the only reason I have misgivings.
David asked Friend or Foe….it depends on where you sit with Seroxat/Paroxetine/Paxil and for all their Christmas Post Delivery, I, for one, would ask #alltrials, how does Study329.org and GSK Transparency, Square?
AllTrials Campaign
Today at 4:37 PM
Dear friend
2015 has been a great year for AllTrials. We mobilised massive support for trial transparency within the investment community, we got the World Health Organisation to take a strong stance on results reporting, and we launched AllTrials in the US which is growing every day.
There’s more great news on the way, and plenty of opportunity for you to help reverse decades of trial secrecy in 2016.
1. Cochrane IberoAmerica and the International Federation of Medical Students’ Associations are helping us to launch AllTrials Español! A team of Spanish volunteers are busy translating key materials, and we’re working on a Spanish language version of AllTrials.net which we hope will be ready early in 2016. Lots to do on this one. Get in touch if you can help us to build support for the Spanish language campaign.
2. Matthew Herder, Associate Professor at the Health Law Institute, has developed a template letter to help people request access to unpublished pharmaceutical safety and effectiveness data from Health Canada (the Canadian regulator). Canada’s 2014 ‘Vanessa’s law’, allows access to this information, but only one person has ever made use of the law. Read the fantastic blog Matthew has written for AllTrials, take advantage of the new law if you can, and share this news with doctors, researchers, civil society, journalists and others.
3. Thanks to overwhelming internal support from medical students and member organisations, the largest association of healthcare providers in the US, the American Medical Association, will decide in the coming weeks whether to join AllTrials. If you’re a member of the AMA, write to the board and let them know just how important their decision is to you.
A final thank you to everyone who supported the campaign this year. Without you, none of this would be possible.
We’re about half way to reaching our $12,000 fundraising target to make a US version of the AllTrials video – can you help us reach it before Christmas? The video will help US supporters spread the word, and encourage people to become campaigners themselves. It will hammer home just how important it is that all clinical trials get registered and their results reported. Please donate here
Wishing you all the best in 2016
James and Lauren
Join the conversation on twitter. Follow @senseaboutsci and use the #AllTrials tag
James Cockerill
Campaigns Manager
Sense About Science
Science and evidence in the hands of the public
And, here we have it:
http://1boringoldman.com/index.php/2015/12/22/a-postscript/
Trigger warning: over the top
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Wolf is Neoliberal Empire.
Red represents citizens of Empire.
Wolf has devised all kinds of ways to find out (and even influence) where Red is going, what she is doing, and even what she is thinking.
Grandmother is a nurturing, interdependent, shared humanity.
Wolf disguises himself as Grandmother while making her (in Red’s mind) an enemy (i.e. “other,” communist, terrorist, immigrant, foreigner, liberal, health nut, activist, etc).
Wolf manipulates Red into dehumanizing Grandmother.
Wolf then tells Red to undress and get into bed (saying he’s the only one who can protect her).
Red’s apron is Truth; Wolf tells her “you don’t need it anymore” and she throws it on the fire, settling for hollow ideology.
Red’s bodice is Peace; Wolf tells her “you don’t need it anymore” and she throws it on the fire, settling for endless war.
Red’s skirt is Freedom; Wolf tells her “you don’t need it anymore” and she throws it on the fire, settling for an illusion of security.
Red’s petticoat is Justice; Wolf tells her, “you don’t need it anymore,” and she throws it on the fire, settling for mindless entertainment.
Red’s stockings are Love; Wolf says, “you don’t need it anymore,” and she throws it on the fire, settling for suspicion and hate.
Red climbs into bed with Wolf while the fire rages, as it consumes Truth, Peace, Freedom, Justice and Love completely.
Grandmother’s house is a sacred ecosystem.
Red says, “oh Grandmother! How hot it is getting in here!”
Wolf answers, “I think the price is worth it, my dear.”
Grandmother’s house burns to the ground along with Grandmother, the Wolf, and not-so-bright Red.
Brilliant, absolutely brilliant! that interpretation will take some beating I guess!
Thank you Mary!
Laurie, very , very interesting interpretation….
Back to the points, I think David might be making with this post, the *corrupted* version of “Red Riding Hood” is, after all the source of all these juicy interpretations, while the original is pretty straight forward– an exciting twist to the adventure of a young girl doing a good deed. —
Makes me think that it is the Brothers Grimm we need to *interpret*. After all they corrupted many folk tales with *sex* and *violence– their signature literary legacy. Needless to say, their audience (not children initially) *ate this up* !!
The Grimm brothers were plunged into poverty when their father died– one brother was 9, the other 10 at the time. I wonder if their anger and resentment over the sudden and drastic fall from privilege was sublimated in their writing? They seemed bent on evoking strong emotion in their audience by adding their own horrifying twists and stripping innocence– even from children. Maybe this was the *real* world according to them?
So, there is rich psychoanalytic fodder in the *corrupted* versions– hmmm, that is something to ponder–So, it is not actually the folklore itself that is revealing the inner workings of a collective unconsciousness — but the inner most motivations, desires and *issues* of the authors who took folklore and fairy tales as the venue for their *twisted message*. — Or, so i think–
Also, the color *red* is an interesting choice–(by the Grimms) not the color of virtue–, which is why I wonder about the references to budding puberty– etc. ? . Ever seen the 1938 Bette Davis film, “Jezebel”? A southern belle, with a flare for rebellion wears a red dress to a traditional *coming out* gala– shunning the traditional, sacred white dress–, and the admonitions of everyone to whom she confides her intentions. She causes a scandal, looking more like a courtesan than a debutante—- loses her fiancé (Henry Fonda) and learns the hard way that Southern women must not step out of their cultural code of behavior…
Back to your interpretation — I think you picked up on evermore subtle conflicts and contradictions that must surely have plagued the minds of the brothers Grimm– and cause us to rebel against the iniquities in our society. I too commend you,– *Brilliant* work !!, Laurie
Hi Katie,
I was wondering if this post wasn’t a bit of a metaphor for what happens with clinical trial data. There is all of the actual data (the original story) and then there is the data that suits the company (Brothers Grimm). If the selected data is what’s being interpreted, how close to the truth will you get?
So maybe, like you say, you can tell more about the Brothers Grimm from analyzing their take on Red Riding Hood than you can tell about the meaning of the original story, because their take is not the original story!
It’s hard to put into words all that I felt from pondering the original version, and I’m really not sure how I ended up with the above. Like pharma often does, I used what was there to make up what I wanted.
Hi Laurie,
As a metaphor for *corrupted* clinical data, this post might also suggest that something equally damaging may have occurred when a *corrupted* version of a folk tale was psychoanalyzed.
What if the mental, emotional/spiritual duress that captured the interest of mid-19th-20th century- newly anointed psychiatrists, had been viewed within the social/economic/cultural context and as a consequence of a palpable shift in the means by which the ruling class dominated and exploited the masses? What if the remedies were sought within communities and tolerance for diversity was valued over conformity? What if education included the shared meanings underlying diverse cultural norms? What if indoctrination by force had never passed as education? ——–
WHAT IF medicalizing maladjustment and looking for the defect in the individual had not become the preferred approach to *treating* non-conformist, rebels and introverts? What if there was no knowledge base from which to diagnose a damaged psyche or differentiate it from a wounded, or vulnerable psyche? Would psychiatry still have become a crucial minion of social control for the *ruling class*?
What IF there really isn’t any such knowledge base ?–just a bunch of made up stories that entertained the wealthy patrons who were all too easily convinced that this was a new, earth shattering science. After all, who branded psychoanalysis with a seal of scientific approval? Surely, not scientists !!
When I reread your interpretation I thought of your *wolf* as authority-, that; cannot be questioned, let alone disobeyed . “Wolf” as a concept transferred via indoctrination, meaning, “authority” endowed with superior attributes and the power to alter our basic understanding of our own lives– and undermine our survival instinct??
Maybe, the original version, which is the story you chose to interpret , is a truly timeless tale. It tells the story of our precarious existence in terms of the preferences and the value assigned to us (peasants) by authority/ruling class. What happens when there is no longer a need for a large number of workers/laborers? and the sheer number of us represents a threat and a financial burden? If we can no longer be exploited for profit, disposal seems a likely remedy.
Maybe there is a good reason why the Grimm’s version of fairytales
were used as propaganda by Third Reich in the mid-20th century?
There was no saving huntsman in the original version…. as I recall.
Little Read Hiding Hood
$6.4m ‘in the Red’ and ‘proximate cause’ and ‘maker’
https://truthman30.wordpress.com/2015/12/23/ebenezer-andrew-witty-meets-the-ghosts-of-christmas-past/
Schell was taking anti-depressant Paxil and Tim Tobin sued maker, winning $6.4m compensation after it was named ‘proximate cause’ of killings
EXCLUSIVE: The true story behind Jennifer Aniston’s Cake – how movie’s scriptwriter was inspired by the brutal murder of his brother’s wife, baby daughter and mother-in-law
• Cake has been acclaimed for Aniston’s portrayal of suicidal mom hooked on prescription drugs in aftermath of car crash that killed her child
• Daily Mail Online can reveal movie was written by Patrick Tobin after his brother’s young family was slaughtered by a relative
• Deb Tobin and her nine-month-old daughter Alyssa were shot dead by her father, along with her mom Rita Schell, by Don Schell, her father
• Tim Tobin, Patrick’s brother, found the horrific scene at father-in-law’s home in Gillette, Wyoming on Valentine’s Day, 1998
• Schell was taking anti-depressant Paxil and Tim Tobin sued maker, winning $6.4m compensation after it was named ‘proximate cause’ of killings
• Patrick Tobin then quit Hollywood to look after his suicidal brother and eventually wrote Cake as a result of experience
Annie, you have made my Christmas Eve! That link to truthman’ s Andrew Witty cartoon is absolutely hilarious. Showed it to my son too – unfortunately, I disturbed him mid – film as you might say but he too was rolling with laughter as he read it so I was forgiven about the film disturbance! Going to disturb my husband’s viewing now so he too can appreciate it.
Sobered up ( from laughter I mean not alcohol!) when I read the rest that you’d written. We all know the story don’t we. Is it a film for 2016 or out already? Hope that it will do justice to the suffering that so many of you have known. If it’s believable it could do a lot of good to raise awareness in my opinion.
Found now that it’s a 2014 film – obviously didn’t leave its mark as I’d never heard of it! Mind you, I’m not much into films but, the mental health link should have caught my eye. Lesson ? – no wonder general public miss so much info on mental health matters if such a film completely missed my radar!
Interesting blog post. I take from it the message or motto: stay away from wolves. And don’t read too much into fairy tales. Especially not from a Freudian analyst or follower. We have him to thank/blame for Bernays and consumerism. Spend, spend, spend.
Little Dead Guiding Mood
Example 1:
http://1boringoldman.com/index.php/2015/12/25/a-story-starting-in-the-middle/
Example 2:
Oregongirl, medford, United States, 10 months ago
Why did he focus the movie on pain management medication when it was Paxil, the anti-depressant that made his family member kill all of his family? Why not focus on that?? It might be a great movie but a lost opportunity to showcase what is really making people kill.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2962358/The-true-story-Jennifer-Aniston-s-Cake-movie-s-scriptwriter-inspired-brutal-murder-brother-s-wife-baby-daughter-mother-law.html#ixzz3vPtx4Cdg
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Example 3:
Johanna
December 25, 2015 | 10:53 AM
AMEN! And pushing that Study 329 paper out into the world was a heroic feat if ever there was one. It may not have been met by kings bearing gifts, but it didn’t die either — not by a long shot. Still gaining wait nicely. I hope all its parents are so, so proud.
Roses are Red
Violets are Blue
A RIAT of colour
Was your gift to you…
Little Red Riding Blood..
Carla..cross post Rx
“We should not have to walk on ‘time bombs’ waiting to explode.
Despite doing so much research there will always be information that we can never get our hands on.”
ABC..P.S..
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=311956&page=1
See memo.
08/16/01
For Representatives Information Only
Paxil Product Management
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Primetime/paxil_remarkable.pdf
Drug Maker Withheld Paxil Study Data
NPA Natl. Physicians @NPAlive Dec 23
@NotasMedicina How many kids given useless meds or denied useful meds? http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=311956 … #AllTrials need be reported.
Counter Punch..
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/opinion/teenagers-medication-and-suicide.html?_r=0
Message from Martha..
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/12/29/a-decade-of-questions-over-a-paxil-study-vindicated/
http://www.truth-out.org/author/itemlist/user/46519
Why Aren’t These Fraudulent Papers Retracted?
By Martha Rosenberg, Truthout | News Analysis
October 1 2003..
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=207944
Eek!………….and other antidepressant-responsive psychiatric disorders.
Omg can’t believe what I’m reading! my withdrawal symptoms didn’t even start to kick in until about the third or fourth week off the SSRI and then it went on for months, coming and going in waves. This is all crap how do they get away with it.
GlaxoSmithKline declined to comment on these documents, saying “it is difficult to respond to court documents taken out of context.” In court, they have said they provided adequate and complete warnings to physicians about the risks of withdrawal. In a letter to “Primetime Live,” they also said the majority of patients who experience any symptoms have mild to moderate symptoms that are usually self-limiting within two weeks.
Twice, in the last 11 years, GlaxoSmithKline have had lawyers sniffing at their boots re Seroxat in the UK.
A new Chairman, joined, GSK, this year, from clean and wholesome RBS.
Any new Chairman will do a complete overview of strategy, pipelines, profit and loss, share price, etc.
He will look carefully at his CEO as to his forward planning and overall performance.
He cannot fail to see one lone product, Paroxetine, a GSK venture into the recesses of mental health.
This will all be new to Sir Philip Hampton, dealing with pound notes in one industry, he might think joining a pharmaceutical company has the same rules….steering a ship to onward success with pills and vaccinations is not quite the same as pound notes..
Pills and vaccinations have the same end goal, to make a profit, and, we have to wonder if he has wandered into the Legal Portfolio Department, where the suits sit and what criteria he is accepting of and how much he is told.
http://www.gsk.com/en-gb/about-us/board-of-directors/
http://www.gsk.com/en-gb/about-us/board-of-directors/sir-philip-hampton/
Transparency and collaboration and intellectual property
‘Not everybody believes that’
Sir Andrew Witty..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDqxyelWGZw
I am afraid, Annie, that whatever their background, it’s ££££, £££££ and more £££££ as far as they are concerned! In order to get that, lie after lie is the order of the day. Just like a ship in the doldrums they will tack endlessly just to make sure that they keep moving onwards (and upwards in their case). The same type of move happens over and over again in big business doesn’t it – with workers’ pensions for example. That it happens elsewhere too DOESN’T MAKE IT RIGHT but it does mean that they are a ‘breed’ apart from the rest of us humans. Maybe we need a ‘Buffy equivalent’ to sort them out once and for all! Oh, if only!
Regarding the original version (at the end of the post), I think Tarantino is set to direct…